Okay, several comments have come in more or less on the same theme here.
Over at Dark Heritage, we have this nugget:
But this is nothing. The other day Jeffro made the argument that the Thief class was the end of old school—and in old school discussions, that’s hardly a unique position. While one can say that the way the Thief class was implemented may have had an unintended cascading effect that changed the tone of the game over time, that’s not really the issue. The Thief class was being extensively used (pre-publication) at the very first Gencon that post-dated the publication of D&D—mere months after it was published. Greyhawk, the supplement that included the thief officially, was in print a mere year after the first printing of D&D. To suggest or even imply that the only old school game predates the thief, as can reasonably be inferred from both Jeffro and Maliszewski’s posts (and many of the comments that follow) means that old school becomes a vanishingly small window of gaming, and begs the question; why not suggest that the publication of D&D in the first place was the end of old school! Gygax and Arneson really sold out when they printed the game up, man!
jddyalblog comments here saying that my whole “looking for it in the weeds” approach in this series of asking “is this very particular rule old school or not is probably a hopelessly quixotic endeavor.”
And over on Twitter, Lewis Pulsipher has this:
Finally, more than one person has struggled with the fact that “old school” means different things in different contexts. People which chips on their shoulders want to find a counterexample that cause my generalizations to fall apart. People that want me to be their cult leader want me to tell them that how they are playing right now is legitimately “old school” and totally not “new school.” And then there’s the people that are getting really nasty. But never mind them.
Lets just clear all this up right now.
Gaiseric over at Dark Heritage completely misread me. In fact, I’m not sure he even read me at all here. If anyone is going to conflate my position on anything with James Maliszewski… well that’s quite the compliment to me, but I don’t think that’s fair to him.
So no, the introduction of the Thief class is not where I draw the line. The cutoff being between TSR D&D and Wizards of the Coast D&D is going to be good enough for most people most of the time, but I have quite a few problems with post-Gygax AD&D. So I’m going to be drawing the line a little further back than most people.
Personally, I think that thinking of Old School and New School only in terms of D&D is a mistake. So lets look at a couple of other examples.
In Traveller, the introduction of the “Official Traveller Universe” a.k.a. The Third Imperium setting is where I draw the line. The style of Traveller campaign I’m most interested in exemplified by what Ken Pick called the Burgess Shale Period of the game.
In Car Wars, the relegation of the role-playing elements of the game over into the GURPS Autoduel line would be where I draw the line. The style of Car Wars campaign I’m most interested in is the original Amateur Night campaign that is outlined in the original pocket box or zip-loc baggie edition.
Of course Traveller’s breaking apart of the class system into a more generic approach that models the various career abilities through skills would generally be considered “new school” if you were looking at those types of game mechanics in a D&D-only context. And the typical combat-heavy Car Wars adventure is often going to have a linear format that is very similar to the typical 4th edition D&D game. That type of adventure design sets the ardent old school D&D fan’s teeth on edge!
The common denominator here is that the implied campaign and the implied setting of many vintage role-playing games is at odds with how the games were ultimately supported over time. The cognitive dissonance this creates was certainly confusing to me back when I was trying to figure out why the third edition Gamma World rules I had as a teenager looked like they were for an entirely different type of game than the module series that ended up coming out for it. I always thought that there was a similar gulf between the first edition Forgotten Realms material and the game system they were intended to be used with.
Now… maybe you aren’t interested in this aspect of role-playing and/or the history of game design. Maybe you don’t want to pick up a vintage game and then try to run it more or less as it was originally intended. And yep, even back in the day, everyone knew how to do it all better than even the designers. Good on them!
I am not outlining a game design methodology, though. And the design movement that these sorts of explorations tipped off already got off the ground years ago. Still, I gotta say… if you want to conflate this kind of investigation with an act of physical violence– or worse– ISIS and/or the Taliban… then I don’t know what to tell you. I mean I really don’t get that stuff.
But yeah, I use the terms “old school” and “new school” a little differently than most people. I even use them a little differently than the people that affiliate themselves with the OSR. Still, I don’t think this is near as complicated as most people want to make this out to be.