Jeffro's Space Gaming Blog

Microgames, Monster Games, and Role Playing Games

File770 Is On Fire

You know, I tried to stay away today…. But for some reason my ears were itching all afternoon. Well I finally caved and took a peek at the discussion at File770 and… oh my goodness. I could not believe what I was reading…!

Let me explain.

No, there is too much. Let me sum up. Well you know, I have done a couple of meet and greets over in those parts in the past week. This has resulted in some really interesting exchanges. Some heart warming, some that give you faith in the potential of mankind… and some that make your jaw drop. It’s been… interesting…. And somehow… in the course of these events, it somehow became a “thing” that I was remarkable for being so winsome in the manner in which I comported myself. Except… this did not satisfy some others. A couple people decided to wreck all the warm fuzzies we were having by crashing our Love In. They took offense on behalf of other people that had no problem with me… and they demanded that we stop communicating with each other fan to fan and instead dredge up all the culture war things that I had bent over backwards to avoid.

That leads us to today’s installment of File770 comments. And it’s awesome. I mean you simply cannot buy entertainment like this. (But wait… there’s a twist ending here, so hold tight.)

Check this out.

Someone with the handle of “mk41” connects the implications of the latest meltdown to the fact that, you know… actual human beings like myself are potentially impacted by them:

I don’t really care for a defense of Rabid Puppies. Vox is so odious and obviously so that anyone signing up for his group gets to own his statements in my book. What I’m concerned with is the Sad Puppies. We’ve met some of them here and some were decent folk. Jeffro for instance certainly doesn’t deserve to be called “unrepentantly racist, sexist and homophobic” and I wouldn’t label his work as “bad-to-reprehensible”.

I believe the Sad Puppies contain (not to imply Jeffro is a member, I don’t know one way or the other) a decent chunk of people like that. And I believe Gallo smeared them.

This does not fly with Aaron:

Except Jeffro is perfectly happy to be published by Castalia House, meaning that he has definitively aligned himself with Rabid Puppy ringleader and unrepentant racist, sexist, and homophobe Theodore Beale.

But this is too much for Paul Oldroyd. He (incredibly) speaks up on my behalf:

Jeffro is one of the few people who has made it over here and conversed in a very reasonable manner, sometimes under provocation. I think that says more about him than where he is published.

Now I should put in here that Paul has been discussing books and stuff with me for months now. He showed up on my social media one day and I more than likely insulted him about something. But somehow, we kept talking together and over time we actually learned how to get along together. Now except for having a passion for science fiction and fantasy, we pretty much have nothing in common. I mean on any other topic, we’re pretty much like oil and water. But that’s how it is with hobbyists. That’s how it is at every single tabletop game convention that I’ve ever been to. People are different, but they figure out how to do cool things together anyway.

And another thing about this. Paul isn’t necessarily sticking up for me because he thinks I’m being bullied. No… based on what I know of him, I think he’s genuinely ticked off at the sort of behaviors that get in the way of fans relating to other fans as fans even when they don’t see eye to eye on the things that are outside of the scope of their common interests. So this discussion isn’t about me per se. No… this is bigger than that.

Well… Aaron is not having it:

Is this how low a standard one should have? He talked politely so his choosing to affiliate with a racist, sexist, homophobic child murder apologist is excusable? Sure, he’s been polite, but lots of people manage to be polite while still being pretty awful people. Jeffro’s chosen his affiliation, and that speaks volumes about him.

And Paul answers back:

If Vox isn’t to continue to wreak havoc, we need to talk to each other. Well, not him and us, obviously. The man is an arse. But to people who are willing to have civil disucssions. I don’t care what Jeffro’s affiliations are as long as he doesn’t foist them on me. I have seen no sign of that so far, so let’s continue the discussions. After all. we had loads of them with everyone pre-Easter.

And then Aaron again:

Yes, go ahead, throw everyone that Beale has targeted under the bus because you aren’t affected. Good standard.

Now pay attention to this guy. Note that… being civil is not enough. People being able to create neutral spaces so a diverse group of people to get together on something awesome is not enough. No… if Jeffro Johnson is there, then the party is over. Why? Because I have n degrees of separation from the most hated person in science fiction.

Now… there’s a lot of things that I could say in response to this. Being that I’m at the center of this, that these are all consenting adults, and that there is no shortage of people that are willing to put in a good word for me, I really don’t see the need to go into rant mode on this one.

But I do want to point out that Aaron’s view of fandom is very familiar to me. His overall attitude and manner is almost identical to what I have observed among “plain people” such as the Old Order Amish. The passage which they use to justify this behavior is from first Corinthians five:

But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

I know people that were not allowed to visit their own children because their ministers had put them under “the ban”. It is a powerful tool for maintaining conformity. It can also be incredibly damaging.

But that is something to discuss another time.

Now, this next bit is kind of funny. I probably shouldn’t have brought this up in the first place, but when I was talking to people over at File770 the other day, they really wanted to know why my Appendix N series can only be read over at the Castalia House blog. You see… several of them told me that while they thought that the stuff I’d put in the Hugo Packets this year was maybe sort of okay and that they might even want to read a little more… well, they just couldn’t see clear to going to that place to do it.

Now…  I have to say that my first thought when I heard this stuff was that it couldn’t be for real. But again, there is a literary antecedent for this and it is actually in the same book of the bible I just quoted:

Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

Is it wrong to eat food that’s been offered to idols? Nope. There’s nothing wrong with it. However… if it honest to goodness actually offends your conscience to do that, look out… it really is a sin to you. According to Paul, anyway. Most people use this passage as a basis for not giving other Christians a hard time even if they are a little funny about practices that may or may not be essential or required or whatever. That’s how I use it with these guys. They can’t read my blog posts because it would violate their conscience. If that’s the case, then I will not pick on them about it. I would never encourage someone to defile their conscience, especially not over a set of blog posts.

(And you might be thinking that I’m having a joke on these people, but no… I really do mean exactly what I say and I don’t have a problem with them having their own beliefs and feelings and convictions. Everybody’s different. But everybody’s got a conscience. Why I would I give anyone a hard time for following theirs?)

So then the next question was… why can’t I just run my series somewhere else. My answer was that I thought it would lower my market value as columnist. Now maybe I shouldn’t have brought that up, but then the next question was… why don’t I write for some other site or something. It’s not like Castalia House is the only game in town, right? My answer to that was that there would have to be some kind of a benefit for me in order to make a move like that. In other words… someone would have to make me an offer.

Now I don’t know how it is that we got into to all this. I went over to File770 to talk about science fiction and fantasy. What I ended up discussing was who I associate with and what kind of business related decisions I have made in the past while in regards to my series. And again, I really don’t think it was all that wise for me to bring this stuff up in the first place, but I was really trying to make an effort to answer whatever it was that people wanted to talk about. If I’d showed up and just stonewalled everyone, I wouldn’t get anywhere. So I really just tried to answer everything that I could as directly and as honestly as I could.

So that brings us to the next round of comments.

A person with the handle of “rcade” gets the ball rolling with this:

While Jeffro Johnson is pleasant and friendly here and is motivated by promoting good books in the field, his decision to blog for Day at the Castalia House site is one I do question. Given how much harm Day is doing and how much more he hopes to do in the future, Johnson should find a new patron or publish his future efforts independently on his own personal blog.

Additionally, his professional association with Day does him no favors.

Paul answers this bit with this:

Where Jeffro blogs is up to him. Although I disagree with him on just about everything apart from the books we both like, I’ve had several pleasant conversations with him. This should be encouraged.

A guy with the handle of “nickpheas” weighs in:

Agree with Paul O. Apart from his publisher Jeffro seems an OK enough sort of guy, even if I did think the piece of his I read was a bit dull and in no sense Hugo Worthy.

I think he’s rather backed himself into a corner. He spoke yesterday about how publishing on his own blog would reduce his worth, (I presume that Pox is paying him), and that he’d be open to offers from other sites, but none seemed to be coming. Which isn’t all that surprising. If I were running a commercial blog site I’d not be wanting Teddy’s henchman to come over.

And then Nick Mamatas lays this one down:

Jeffro, I think, made a substantial error in bringing his work to the Beale’s publishing house, though to be perfectly blunt any number of both new writers and accomplished ones put on tuxedos and ballgowns and appoint themselves goodwill ambassadors for the Church of Scientology every year via Writers of the Future, so while Jeffro has missed the mark, he’s not much more wrong than many many people happily embraced by the “community.”

And a “clif” puts in:

I agree … one would hope that, if indeed Jeffro is seeking a “meeting of the minds”, that he would be also be looking for a new publisher.

A “Gully Foyle” helpfully points out that they don’t have to condemn just on the basis of my associations. My own comments at File770 are evidently all they really need for that:

Look, Jeffro seems like an ok guy, but his strange insistence on pre-1980 fantasy and sf, for its ‘spiritual’ content makes me think his placement at Castalia is not the accident of some naif pursuing his newfound horizons of spec fic. I’d suspect that he is more closely aligned with the Christian dominionist angle of the pups. His statements about the nihilism of current f and sf also strike me as perhaps evidence of this. That said, credit to him for engaging in generally polite and friendly ways.

And note that the commentariate really pushed me previously to attack more recent works rather then simply dodge their questions by trying to focus on what it was that I liked about classic science fiction and fantasy. I finally relented and told them that I really didn’t get a lot out of recent television and movies, that I thought Jackson’s adaptions of Tolkien to the silver screen were incoherent, and that Lady Astronaut of Mars struck me as being barren. The people then laid off on that point, but evidently these opinions were, shall we say, problematic….

Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little then added:

It seems that demanding to hold Vox Day’s business associates immune from “guilt by association” with VD’s politics follows a similar trend to demanding that people “judge the book, not the author” or “enjoy the book regardless of the author’s politics.” It gets easier to do the less one is negatively impacted by the politics.

Which isn’t to say that there are no women, people of color, or people of LGBT description defending Jeffro Johnson’s business choices, or arguing for interacting with him civilly despite knowing what business choices he is continuing to make. I know better than that and I’ve already seen counterexamples. But I, personally, as someone who would suffer disenfranchisement, injury, rape, and/or death in what Vox Day has vociferously described as his ideal society, have very little patience for anyone who chooses to do business with Vox Day, and no interest in handing out cookies for such a one’s ability to craft politely-worded prose in a blog comment thread.

And finally “JJ”, who really wanted me to fight with him yesterday, unloaded with this:

Yes, Jeffro has been reasonably polite in his interactions here (and I am still baffled as to why people feel it should be necessary to offer plaudits to people when they behave like mature adults, which is the default setting and is how they should behave anyway).

He’s also engaged in a fair bit of deflection and disingenuousness here. He is also published by Castalia House and supports Vox Day. He’s chosen to align himself with the Rabid Puppies including VD, Wright, and Kr@tman. Choices have consequences, including being judged by one’s choices.

I don’t know what to say to all of this.

I mean this literally blows my mind.

What exactly am I supposed to say? I went over there to try to mend fences, build bridges, find common ground…. I wanted to give them the sort of fair shake that I would want if the roles were reversed, right…?

Instead I get this:

Choices have consequences, including being judged by one’s choices.

Being the target of these remarks, I am of course biased. But… really… am I the only person that finds this to be a little scary…?

You know… I struggle to find a literary antecedant for this sentiment…. The only thing I can come up with right off is this passage from 1 Kings:

So Jeroboam and all the people came to Rehoboam the third day, as the king had appointed, saying, Come to me again the third day.And the king answered the people roughly, and forsook the old men’s counsel that they gave him; And spake to them after the counsel of the young men, saying, My father made your yoke heavy, and I will add to your yoke: my father also chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.

This JJ guy… his words are not those of reason. They are not words of someone that wants to get along. They are not the words of someone that is looking for ways to create a neutral space where fans from all walks of life can go enjoy awesome things together.

No, JJ’s words… they are the kind of words that preface civil wars, church splits, divorces, and all manner of chaos.

How exactly should I respond to this…?

What kind of consequences am I liable to have to endure…?

Should I be afraid? Angry? Insulted?

I don’t really have an answer to those questions because I am genuinely shocked by this. You may not believe me, but I find this to be really, intensely surprising. Even more surprising is the way that nobody at File770 is particularly surprised by this stuff. Eh, I guess this is just business as usual for people over there…?

I am not trying to exaggerate, but I have never experienced anything that made me feel this hated, this despised, this low.

It takes my breath away.

And the response from the other fans there…? Crickets.

Now, nobody’s asked me. But I have to say… this is some profoundly weird stuff. I think this is just flat out freaky weird. This is incredible. Unbelievable.

I grew up under the shadow of Moral Majority nudniks that wanted to take away my games. Now… there’s this. What the heck happened?!

Now there’s no way that I can get into what this all means and what I should do and what I’m going to do. Heck, I don’t even know. Maybe I’m overreacting. Maybe this will all blow over. Who knows? But let me just say this.

When I started blogging at Castalia House, no one came to me and explained why it was that this would be such a bad idea.

When Sad Puppies put my name on their list early this year, no one came to me and explained why I really ought to ask them to drop me from it.

When the Hugo Nominations were announced, no one came to me to tell me that I really should ask the Worldcon people to put someone else in my place.

You know something… I’m a nobody. Even Hitler could tell you that the Best Fan Writer is the one category that nobody really cares about. I am just about the only person on the shortlists that’s never published anything. I mean really. How many books have the other fan writers published? Five each? Ten? Twenty? i don’t even know. I can tell you my total, though. It’s zero.

But I don’t get it.

I’m worth being dealt “consequences” by fandom… but I’m not worth being put on notice. Hell, I’m not even enough of a human being that people like this can personally come to me and ask me to stand down.

Am I the only one that didn’t get a memo about this?

Seriously, have these people fired a shot across the bow of the entire freakin’ world when I was asleep or something?

Who do these people think they are…?


80 responses to “File770 Is On Fire

  1. Jlv61560 June 9, 2015 at 8:54 pm

    It’s the moral certainty of the ignorant. If these people never have to face anyone who disagrees with them in any way, then they never have to put the intellectual effort into actually understanding what other people (that is, people who do not think identically with them) believe. Life is SOOO much easier if you can just yell “Splitter!” at someone sitting three rows over in the Coliseum, than if you have to actually knuckle down and try to figure out WHY they hold different beliefs from you.

    And, of course, that kind of intellectual bankruptcy will never, ever, ever admit that there is any possibility that anyone might hold different beliefs from their own genuinely and honestly; for them it’s all about vilifying and demonizing them. No, I’m sorry, but those people doing that are the very kind that used to burn old women at the stake while shouting “Witch!” but are so morally and intellectually deficient they can’t even grasp that they’ve become the very thing that they claim to hate.

    Irony is a lost cause.

  2. Karl Gallagher June 10, 2015 at 12:16 am

    I think there are people out there who want an “enemy” tribe to attack so they can impress their own tribe with how righteous they are. So there’s no satisfying that kind. You’re doing a great job of communicating with people who want to communicate. I’m enjoying the heck out of your posts and have for years. So keep posting and let the haters hate.

    • jeffro June 10, 2015 at 5:46 am

      Karl, you’ve been reading me almost longer than I’ve been writing.

      There is more than a little flattery mixed in with the hate. I mean… for a guy that’s such lousy writer, it sounds like I could have actually been somebody had I not fallen in with the wrong crowd. I never knew…!

  3. Daddy Warpig June 10, 2015 at 6:33 am

    Among ideologues and fanatics there are those who will hate you for any connection or sign of approval, no matter how distant or faint, to those they have cast out as being hated and unclean. Utter rejection of those who hold differing opinions (not just the opinions, but *the people themselves*) is the mark of a true fanatic.

    This is, for those sorts of people, neither unusual nor untoward. Indeed, it is *expected* that all members of their community do the same, lest they come under the same condemnation. (As you note with the Amish example.)

    I could give you real life examples I witnessed in real time (from one single slightly dissenting tweet between friends to communal abuse, ostracism, and a person deleting their Twitter account in 6-8 hours), but there’s no need.

    Yes, this is common. Yes, it will become more-so.

    And yes, this is language proceeding a divorce. In the end, we may come to two divided fanships, ostensibly dealing with the same subject matter (science fiction, fantasy, etc.) but with wholly different purpose and ethos.

    This is the world we live in, unfortunately.

    • jeffro June 10, 2015 at 8:27 am

      I am genuinely speechless.

      • Andrew June 10, 2015 at 1:48 pm

        I’ve been a huge SF/F reader and casual to involved gamer (Tabletop, RPG, Video games) for almost 30 years now. I remember the summer I read Ender’s Game, Dune, Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and played D&D and Avalon Hill games like it was yesterday.

        I don’t think the Hugo’s were taken over by a bunch of SJW’s looking to push a social agenda. I think that makes for good copy, but I have a hard time believing it. What I do believe is that the Hugo voter’s are/were a small, insular group, and like every human being out there, they have their preferences, who and what they will read and won’t read. I think the Hugo Awards have nominated and rewarded some mediocre work on name recognition more than anything else lately, because the scope of their reading was limited by their own internal biases. And because the voting pool was so small and insular in their tastes, the voting pool of nominated works was not as diverse at it could have been.

        Look at just Best Novels.
        Best Novel 2005 424 nominating ballots, 230 titles, 1360 votes
        Best Novel 2006 430 nominating ballots, 232 titles, 1372 votes
        2007 does not have a break down, but it took 35 votes to make it into the top 5 (Elfheim)
        Best Novel, 2008, 382 Nominating ballots, 745 ballots counted for final voting.
        Best Novel, 2009, 639 ballots (no other breakdown given).
        Best Novel, 2010, 864 nominations cast, 875 ballots counted for final voting.
        Best Novel, 2011, 833 nominating ballots, 1813 ballots counted for final voting.
        Best Novel 2012, 958 nominating ballots, 1664 ballots counted for final voting.

        It’s only the past couple of years the number of participants has grown, and I’m not sure what caused the jump between 2008 and 2009, ebooks maybe (?), And each year, especially after the advent of KDP and other electronic outlets, the number of available works grew,

        Then you look at the smaller categories as well, Best Editor, Best artist, it’s the same names, again, and again, and again…Frank Wu mentioned this in his recusal post of 2007.

        I don’t think there was anything willful or intentional about the past Hugo noms and voting trends. But a decent size of fandom felt that the books they liked, the authors they liked, were being ignored. Including some of the writers I enjoy. I looked at what Brad was doing with SP3 this year. I read the works suggested on the slate. I nominated, but I did not nominate everything Brad had suggested. Some of what I nominated made it. Others didn’t. I suppose that makes me a Sad Puppy supporter, in the sense that they are trying to address some of the same issues I have.

        And saying that is enough to make me a right wing, misogynistic, Homophobic Nazi for some people.

        Over a literary award.

        Your not the only one speechless these days Jeffro.

      • Daddy Warpig June 10, 2015 at 9:18 pm

        Jeffro, you are a decent man and I admire the way you’ve engaged all who came to your blog today. (I also enjoy your writing. It is exceptional.)

        Rest assured I won’t do anything to disrupt the air of candor and friendliness you’ve taken such pains to establish.

        I wish you well.

        BTW, if you want more details on the incident I mentioned, if only to verify it for yourself, feel free to email If not, no worries.


  4. Cirsova June 10, 2015 at 8:30 am

    Y’know, I’m amazed that for how many people I’ve seen saying how this or that person should not be nominated because someone else wrote something on a blog, I haven’t seen a single person anywhere suggest that Rat Queens shouldn’t have been nominated because its artist was fired from the book after being arrested for beating his wife.

    • jeffro June 10, 2015 at 8:31 am

      What in the devil…?!

      • Cirsova June 10, 2015 at 8:32 am

        I would never have known if I had only relied on Hugo buzz and not looked it up myself.

        Mostly because I was all “Well, even though the writing is shit, some of the fights are pretty well drawn, and… wait… oh my god, with everything going on why has no one mentioned this!?”

  5. H.P. June 10, 2015 at 9:28 am

    They disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death the right of other people to attack you for saying it.

  6. Robert Eaglestone June 10, 2015 at 10:58 am

    You’re on the ‘other side’ of their culture war.

    I actually now believe there are two factions represented. Both are rooted in human nature, and show up in every playground in every human society.

    1. “No Fair”

    In the first camp, there is a feeling of injustice. Something is patently unfair in their culture/world. Probably related to various and particular definitions of equality, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

    Sometimes, the response to “no fair” is “so what?” — in other words, about half the time the complaint is justified. The other half of the time, you’ve got a whiner who knows some diplomatic tactics. Such things require some sifting.

    Anyway, something is biased against them, and so they feel powerless and a bit angry. But they believe they have a rare opportunity to fix it, and so they have to try, while they have the power to. That means focusing their energy against perceived obstacles.

    2. “If I can’t have it, then nobody can”

    It is the old schoolyard bleat of selfish jealousy, and never benefits anyone.

    In the second camp, the original energy against injustice has degenerated to plain old hidebound ideology. In this case, the goal is simply destruction, because anger has no master: it is neither tactical nor precise, and lays waste long after goals are achieved. This is why angry ideologies are doomed to self-destruction, while also causing massive collateral damage as they exit.

    I believe this latter group to be the most noticeable, the most selfish, and the most unjust.

  7. nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 12:23 pm

    I am not trying to exaggerate, but I have never experienced anything that made me feel this hated, this despised, this low.

    Really? If that’s all it takes to make you feel like a victim of some oppression, you should get out more and do more things.

    • asterling June 10, 2015 at 1:31 pm

      This is a personal response and does not represent our company nor any of our author partners or founders.

      In high school, when some boys who “liked” me learned from a teacher that my dad was Jewish, they changed from following me around like puppies to setting my locker on fire and writing “Die Juden Bitch!” on it. I got sent home for 2 days “for my own good.” Nothing happened to them. One of the kids is actually my Facebook “friend” now and doesn’t remember anything about it. It was a “joke.” Over time, other stuff has happened, like a lunatic e-mailing 30K “fans” with information that I’d murdered my 6 month old baby who died in an accident at home (a grief that almost killed me). I am survivor of rape and not the jokey type or date type – the “named chair of Literature” type. It was because I won one too many writing prizes over other students and I fit the perp’s victim physical profile. This cost me a Rhodes Scholarship and Watson Fellowship and kept me out of grad school for almost 10 years. In just about every job I’ve ever had, someone tried to destroy what I was doing or get me fired by telling lies behind my back, including “anonymous letters” and all types of other shenanigans unrelated to the job.

      It is my personal opinion that internet comments from strangers don’t matter. Take it from me: I don’t think too many people think I murdered my baby Anthony. I kept all those jobs until I chose to leave for a better job of my own accord. That Named Chair of Literature is no longer with us, but he didn’t keep me from being a writer. And I’m very proud to be a Juden Bitch, still standing.

    • Cirsova June 10, 2015 at 1:32 pm

      Very few people are so publicly shit on by so many people at once, so not many people are used to it. Saying that it feels bad to be shit on isn’t quite the same as claiming to be a victim of oppression.

      • nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 1:38 pm

        Don’t be ridiculous. Jeffro wasn’t shit on. His choice of blog venue was critiqued, and utterly mildly, and with all sorts of qualifiers about how polite he was otherwise, how others have made similar choices, etc.

        Eight people isn’t really so many either. Really, any writer who doesn’t have eight people talking about him isn’t doing a very good job reaching an audience.

      • Cirsova June 10, 2015 at 1:45 pm

        A few genuinely positive remarks and critiques, but a large swathe of incredibly backhanded compliments. And considering the overwhelming support I’ve seen for blanket statements about who’s a racist homophobic neo-nazi beyond a shadow of doubt, it’s not unreasonable for someone to be somewhat taken aback, particularly if they’re unused to groups of strangers calling them racist homophobic neo-nazis.

      • nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 1:52 pm

        Buried in your reply is an admission that the remarks that have supposedly made Jeffro feel low and despised are not actually the issue. Who called Jeffro a neo-Nazi, or a racist or a homophobe on File770 (it’s “on fire”) in general or in any of the remarks posted he posted—the ones he is actually complaining about. Nobody. Somebody somewhere called someone a neo-Nazi (a someone who believes that blacks are a separate subspecies of H. sapiens, that immigration leads to the collapse of civilizations, and that the Jews as a people are behind the decline of WASP control of the US) and then eight people say that Jeffro is a polite guy but they don’t want to give his boss some clicks…and what’s the issue?

        I also would like to see a content analysis showing a large swath or incredibly backhanded compliments. If that’s the issue, then I stand by my point: if receiving several backhanded compliments from a group of eight people makes one feel as low and despised (you know, the victim of oppression) as ever he was, then he should get out more and do more things.

      • Cirsova June 10, 2015 at 1:59 pm

        Multiple people have said that the Sad/Rabid puppies are racist homophobic neo-Nazis, and multiple people on File 770 have been clamoring in agreement. Jeffro was on the slates, he writes at Castalia House, therefore the implicit accusation is present.

        Vox Day may be a dick-bag who lashed together a steam calliope out of internet assholes and on it composed his very own Adagio in G Minor on it in the form of the 2015 Hugo controversy, but within the context of the conversation on File 770, people complimenting Jeffro on his civility are close to diving right into articulate bright clean black man territory.

      • nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 2:22 pm

        Ah, you are a liar. I see.

        Well, liar, let us count up your lies before the Lord Jesus Christ, who despises all lies.

        Indeed, several people did not call the Sad/Rabid puppies racist homophobic neo-Nazis. One woman said that the sad puppies were extremely right wing and that the rabids are neo-Nazis. She was clearly speaking of their leadership, and then noted their social politics. So you lie.

        (Whether Gallo is correct or not in her estimation is another story, but I will suggest that when you point to a short story that many people enjoyed, that is widely read, and that won a Hugo and denounce it as an “Affirmative Action” victory because its author is Chinese and gay, then indeed you’ve managed to express both a racist and a homophobic sentiment. When you suggest that the instinct of men is to beat gay men to death with tire irons, you are expressing a homophobic sentiment.)

        And no, the commenters of 770 were not clamoring in agreement with your false construction. Indeed, when Brad T. appeared on 770 to ask if he were being called a neo-Nazi by one woman (not several, liar) the commenters pointed out that no, he was NOT being called a neo-Nazi as he was not a Rabid Puppy. So again, you lie.

        Further, you lie via prevarication—you walked back from your lie “groups of strangers calling them racist homophobic neo-nazis” to admit that nobody said any such thing to Jeffro. By saying that something is an “implicit accusation” you acknowledge that *nothing* was actually *said*, that no group of strangers ever called Jeffro a racist homophobic neo-Nazi. But you don’t acknowledge that you have changed your argument—thus, you lie.

        You also simply lie about Jeffro’s complaint! Jeffro makes no complaint about being called a racist homophobic Nazi (because he was not; surely he would have provided the images of those comments). Thus, another lie. The core lie, really, from which your other lies have sprung.

        Someone did remark that Jeffro seems to agree with certain religio-political positions that Beale might share—though I did hear a podcast the other day in which Beale suggested that he doesn’t really know much about big-d Dominionism. But, so what? He licensed his material to the man, for an explicitly ideological publishing house. If I published a short story in the Eastern Orthodox literary magazine St. Katherine Review, it wouldn’t be weird at all for someone to draw the conclusion that I might have some sympathy for Eastern Orthodoxy?

        Finally, your suggestion that the compliments Jeffo was paid must be similar to racist condescension isn’t a lie, but it does depend on the structure of lies you have created.

        It’s all quite simple: people find Jeffro’s appeal to go to the CH blog to read his work off-putting, because CH is run by a man who believes that a conspiracy of Jews is destroying white Protestant culture and that blacks are not fully homo sapiens and that women should most often not be educated in colleges because it harms society to do. Now, having said that, I don’t give two shits: I clicked right over to CH and read Jeffro’s piece on Lovecraft, and found it simplistic and hamstrung by the odd choice of starting with a focus on a story Lovecraft revised for another writer.

        And all this, all this that really happened, mind you, not all your lies, is according to Jeffro one of the most dispiriting experiences in his life?

        I stick with my first comment: he should get out more.

      • Cirsova June 10, 2015 at 2:26 pm

        Your time would be better served writing essays about Lovecraft rather than what a shit bag you think I am. Those are actually worth reading.

      • nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 2:28 pm

        “Liar” doesn’t equal “shit bag.”

        Indeed, it is yet another lie from you to suggest so.

    • Jlv61560 June 10, 2015 at 3:49 pm

      Why, how very dismissive and contemptuous of you. Wonder how you would feel if you were the one being excoriated over there? Or maybe you’re one of the ones doing the excoriating. Who knows?

      • nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 3:55 pm

        “Excoriated”—you don’t know from excoriated if you think eight people saying, in effect, “Gosh, you seem like a nice guy but you did wrong to go to work for someone who thinks a Jewish conspiracy is destroying America” qualifies.

        I’ve been excoriated plenty. Apparently, to the extent that Jeffro and you would faint dead away, if you think these patty cakes Jeffro listed are so upsetting.

        And I have no idea why you say “who knows”—unlike the pseudonymous cowards across the comments sections of the Internet, my name and face appears both here and on File770. Here’s the comment Jeffro quoted, which brought me here:

        Jeffro, I think, made a substantial error in bringing his work to the Beale’s publishing house, though to be perfectly blunt any number of both new writers and accomplished ones put on tuxedos and ballgowns and appoint themselves goodwill ambassadors for the Church of Scientology every year via Writers of the Future, so while Jeffro has missed the mark, he’s not much more wrong than many many people happily embraced by the “community.”

        If you think that’s excoriation, then I congratulate you on your apposite choice of words—only the thinnest skins in the world would find my comment excoriating (ex-without, corium-skin).

      • Jlv61560 June 10, 2015 at 4:02 pm

        But your comments are so contemptuous and dismissive of someone else’s expressed opinion. Surely, as a card-carrying member of the “inclusion” crowd, you can’t possibly dismiss another human being’s feelings…oh, wait, I just read your responses to Cirsova. Never mind, you’ll obviously drop straight into the ad hominem given any opportunity. Engaging with you is like wrestling a pig.

        And, of course, we only have your word that you don’t post under pseudonyms as well.

        It must be nice to be so superior to everyone else, though.

      • nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 4:06 pm

        What ad hominems did I make? I noted that Cirsova was a liar and explicitly pointed out his several lies. That’s no ad hominem. His argument was the focus, not his character or condition.

        “Inclusion” means that everyone gets their say—my illustrating that his say was wall-to-wall lies doesn’t exclude him. To the extent that people do not find lies credible when they are pointed out, he excludes himself.

        I do have to say it’s pretty nervy for a pseud to complain that I might be a pseud, somewhere, some time. Is it bad to be a pseud or not?

      • Jlv61560 June 10, 2015 at 4:28 pm

        Wait. What? You accused someone of having a different opinion from you of being a liar? You based that on your “interpretation” of what others said on another blog? And that’s not an ad hominem attack? Are you really that obtuse?

        Or are you actually God? In that case, I can clearly see how you would know what Jeffro meant when he said X, or what blah-blah’s intentions were when they wrote Y. The rest of us just have to read what was written; we lack the power of knowing all and seeing all that you have, o mighty one.

        Ah, I see, so you’re a better man than I because I just used my e-mail address as my pseud and you trot right out and put your pic on? Duly noted.

      • nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 4:30 pm


        I wasn’t responding to anyone’s opinions. Of, “It’s not unreasonable for someone to be somewhat taken aback, particularly if they’re unused to groups of strangers calling them racist homophobic neo-nazis” I only took issue with the second clause—the second clause isn’t opinion. It is a factual claim.

        Nobody on File770 called Jeffro a racist homophobic neo-Nazi. And that is a fact.

      • Jlv61560 June 10, 2015 at 4:38 pm

        Annnd…we’re off to the word parsing races. Yep. No surprises there.

        Of course, if we apply the “reasonable man standard” it was patently obvious that they were tarring him with the same brush as the owner of Castalia, (while yet, apparently, leaving grounds for “plausible deniability”). I seem to remember someone condemning him for “his choices” played a roll in starting all of this…and if that’s not tarring him with the same brush, I can’t imagine what else it might be. Or was that person perhaps condemning him for his choice of parking space?

        Ah well, perhaps we can just agree to disagree about this, and probably every thing else, except one thing — I too am a fan of Call of Cthulhu, and it’s various offshoots, and have greatly enjoyed playing it ever since it first saw the light of day.

      • nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 4:49 pm

        Annnd…we’re off to the word parsing races. Yep. No surprises there.

        Words actually do mean things. You don’t know what ad hominem means. I do.

        Of course, if we apply the “reasonable man standard” it was patently obvious that they were tarring him with the same brush as the owner of Castalia, (while yet, apparently, leaving grounds for “plausible deniability”). I seem to remember someone condemning him for “his choices” played a roll in starting all of this…and if that’s not tarring him with the same brush, I can’t imagine what else it might be.

        Tarring Jeffro with the same brush would be this: “Jeffro must believe that the Jews are working to undermine WASP culture through immigration, blacks are intrinsically uncivilized because they lack Neanderthal DNA, and women shouldn’t be allowed to vote in parliamentary systems since they tend to vote for the male candidates they want to have sex with, because that’s what Beale believes.”

        What is reasonable is pointing out that selling one’s writing to a highly ideological publisher is a mistake if you don’t wish to be seen as accommodating that ideology. if made Jeffro a better offer than CH, should he take it? How about Sound like a neutral territory for the discussion of RPGs?

      • Jlv61560 June 10, 2015 at 9:34 pm

        Ah, the invincible moral certainty of arrogance. You are what you claim to hate. Burn any witches lately?

      • nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 10:08 pm

        You know, when someone shifts the conversation from the topic (in this case, were the remarks directed at Jeffro’s choice really so harsh) to whiny complaints about arrogance and cliches about witch-burning, it becomes pretty clear that you either have nothing to say about the topic or have literally forgotten about it.

      • Jlv61560 June 10, 2015 at 11:24 pm

        “Says the man who switched the conversation from why Jeffro felt threatened to whether or not anyone had actually specifically stated X in an attempt to belittle his concerns.” Irony much?

        But whatever.

    • jeffro June 10, 2015 at 3:52 pm

      If I can ask you just one question, could you please tell me… are you a Christian?

    • jeffro June 10, 2015 at 4:01 pm

      If you’d condescend to answer another question… may I ask… where are you from?

      • nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 4:02 pm

        You know, I do have a Wikipedia page. I am from the United States. I was born in New York of Greek immigrant parents.

    • jeffro June 10, 2015 at 4:07 pm

      Well hey, I like to hear it all personal like. Your parents… how did they get the notion to come over this way…? Is there some kind of story to it? You know, family lore that you can share?

      • nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 4:12 pm

        My mother was in the US, visited Greece, fell in love with my father, who left his home to be with her. Another element was the US-backed junta of the colonels in Greece at the time which made life difficult for sailors who would not find accommodation with brutal cryptofascism. The joke is this: “Hmm, is there a country whose government the CIA would not overthrow? I can think of only one…”

    • jeffro June 10, 2015 at 4:15 pm

      Okay, that’s funny. Can I ask how you got into Lovecraft? Were you initiated into forbidden lore by an acquaintance or did you discover him on your own?

      • nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 4:18 pm

        TV! I saw the episode of the Ghostbusters cartoon about the Necronomicon and one of the characters mentioned “Lovecraft” and I found myself thinking “Hmm, that seems real. Not like the rest of this cartoon. Like that is a real man.” Later, “The Rats in the Walls” was in a school book, and then I started playing RPGs and found Call of Cthulhu, which I enjoyed, and then I started reading Lovecraft in depth.

    • jeffro June 10, 2015 at 4:26 pm

      How did your Call of Cthulhu sessions tend to go? Were the scenarios all about archaeologists and socialites and private investigators battling cultists and blowing up interdimensional portals with dynamite and such… or did you branch out into other ways of framing “Lovecraftian” scenarios. [Note: I have not read the modules for that game, so I am not trying to characterize them with as being any particular way.]

      • nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 4:28 pm

        They went like most CoC games go—new character creation every two weeks or so! The main scenario I liked took place in the 1920s. I played a bomb-throwing anarchist!

    • jeffro June 10, 2015 at 4:33 pm

      Bomb throwing. Always with the bomb throwing! Did you ever get to the point where you became more of a Lovecraft purist and maybe looked askance at what the role players have done with Lovecraft’s work…? Or are you able to compartmentalize well enough that you can just revel in blowing things up in the game as you slowly lose your sanity?

      • nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 4:44 pm

        I am happy with all sorts of détournements to Lovecraft. My own first novel combined Kerouac and Lovecraft. I’ve written a story about a post-Singularity setting called “Inky, Blinky, Pinky, Nyarlathotep.” It’s not even a matter of compartmentalization; Lovecraft’s fiction is deep enough to support a wide variety of people using it.

    • jeffro June 10, 2015 at 4:48 pm

      So you’re pretty open minded then. I’ve heard of people make tongue-in-cheek references to a “Derlethian Heresy”. You’re just not that sort of person…? At all…?

      • nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 4:54 pm

        Nope! I always tell people I like the top 3% of everything, and dislike the rest. So I don’t grab a science fiction novel because “Hey, it’s science fiction!” and any SF will do if I want to read something, I try to find the best out there and read that. Same with crime fiction, literary fiction, romance, music, RPGs, whatever.

    • jeffro June 10, 2015 at 5:01 pm

      Quite a few authors picked up Lovecraft’s oeuvre and ran with it in the years following his death. Can you recommend any of these earlier works as being in that top 3% that you’re talking about…?

      • nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 5:06 pm

        Bloch’s stories in THE OPENER OF THE WAY (of course they aren’t all Lovecraftian, but I still love “Yours Truly, Jack the Ripper”) Ramsey Campbell’s early Lovecraftian stories (and of course everything since then Lovecraftian or not) and occasionally Frank Belknap Long, though he is hit or miss.

      • nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 5:10 pm

        Really Jeffro, I do love talking about myself, but is there a point this is leading to? Do let me know.

    • jeffro June 10, 2015 at 5:12 pm

      Now what about you? How did you get the notion to write your own Lovecraft type stories…? Do you have some kind of origin story that sums up your transition from fan to creator?

      • nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 5:18 pm

        Oh, it was a mercenary decision! Lovecraftian fiction has a built-in market. So too does tertiary material about the Beats. It occurred to me when I was in a bookstore and saw collections of both Lovecraft’s and Kerouac’s letters that the authors had a few things in common—New England roots, a circle of close writer friends, cult followings among readers, anxieties over sex and the size of the universe—that they could be combined. I also thought, “Wow, if people will buy books of their letters, surely they’ll buy a novel with them in it. I can sell to all the Lovecraftians and all the Beat fans.”

        As it turns out, I was wrong—such a book will also sell to the overlap in the Venn diagram: people who like Lovecraft and also like the Beats, at least initially. Since then, the book, MOVE UNDER GROUND, has remained a pretty good moneymaker for me, with a German, Greek, and forthcoming Spanish edition, two film options come (and then sadly expired), and a pretty neat life as a Kindle ebook.

        Then I realized I had a knack for combination and have done Lovecraft and Raymond Carver, Lovecraft and David Foster Wallace, Lovecraft and Hunter S. Thompson (my book THE DAMNED HIGHWAY, with Brian Keene) and many other stories. Most of my Lovecraftian fiction is collected in THE NICKRONOMICON, which really explains my view of Lovecraft more than this conversation would.

    • jeffro June 10, 2015 at 5:17 pm

      Okay, one last question here as I can see you’re done. Which of your own books would you recommend to Lovecraft fans. (Also… can you tell us if there a particular website or format that we should patronize that would put the maximum amount of money into your pocket?)

    • jeffro June 10, 2015 at 5:21 pm

      Good grief! Which of your books is the “Lovecraft and Raymond Carver” one? That’s a must have team-up there! (Okay, this is really really really the last question.)

      • nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 5:27 pm

        Oh, it’s just a short story, “That of Which We Speak When We Speak of the Unspeakable.” It’s in my collection, but it’s appeared elsewhere, so maybe you already have it. It was first published in LOVECRAFT UNBOUND (Dark Horse, Ellen Datlow ed.) and then reprinted in LOVECRAFT’S MONSTERS (Tachyon, Ellen Datlow ed.). I think MONSTERS is still on sale for $2 for Kindle if you’re keen to read the story right now.

    • jeffro June 10, 2015 at 5:29 pm

      Hey, thanks for dropping by and taking the time to do this. This has been really informative.

  8. nickmamatas June 10, 2015 at 3:56 pm

    Hell, I even hinted at it when I said you “missed the mark” (ἁμαρτία).

  9. John Seavey June 10, 2015 at 8:25 pm

    Jeffro said: “Instead I get this:

    Choices have consequences, including being judged by one’s choices.

    Being the target of these remarks, I am of course biased. But… really… am I the only person that finds this to be a little scary…?”

    That would be the basic condition of being an adult, sir. We all find it scary, but I’m not sure what alternative you could suggest that would work. Are you suggesting that choices should have no consequences for you? Are you suggesting that you should not be judged by the decisions you make? If not, why not? We all make decisions, and we all live by the consequences of those decisions, good or bad. I’m not entirely clear on why you feel you should be exempted from this particular part of the human condition.

  10. Meredith June 10, 2015 at 8:32 pm

    “Choices have consequences, including being judged by one’s choices.”

    I didn’t question it because I find it self-evident that most action (or in-action) has consequences. Some of those are good, some of those are bad, and most of them will be minor in the grand scheme of things. As far as what consequences you, personally, might deal with… Well, not a lot. Some (but not all) people who find Day abhorrent won’t read your blog series. Some people will suspect you share some (or all) of Day’s abhorrent beliefs and will judge you favourably or unfavourably based on that. Criticism is a consequence, but it isn’t persecution. I think you may have read much more sinister things into the word “consequences” than was intended.

    • jeffro June 10, 2015 at 8:37 pm

      Hey, Meredith. Thanks for dropping by.

    • Meredith June 10, 2015 at 8:38 pm

      I’m disappointed to see so many Culture Warriors turn up in this thread when there was hardly a peep in the other one. I guess for some people File770 is only worth talking about when there’s outrage to be had.

      • jeffro June 10, 2015 at 8:42 pm

        There are different things that “trigger” each side. Sometimes this is done inadvertently because people come at things from completely different perspectives. But nothing can prevent a meeting of the minds from occurring like a group of people that keep each other in a state of outrage.

      • Meredith June 11, 2015 at 7:33 am

        I can’t help but feel you’re deliberately fanning the flames to get sympathy on this occasion. Not necessarily with the OP, but you haven’t done a damn thing to defuse the Culture Warrior commenters here.

        Msb pointed out that you’re usually the centre of attention (not for bad reasons) when you visit File770, and perhaps that lead to an unintended feeling of being piled on.

        [Jeffro: I’m not sure if you’ve noticed me stepping in to get the word out that Nick Mamatas is not only a human being with actual feelings, but also a significant creator. There was a personal conflict that was steadily escalating here and I took that flame war and turned it into an opportunity to connect people to common interests. If you cannot give me credit for that, then I do not think I will ever meet your standards.]

  11. Rogers Cadenhead (@rcade) June 10, 2015 at 8:46 pm

    You don’t have to call me “a person with the handle of rcade.” All my comments on File 770 linked to my weblog with my full name: Rogers Cadenhead.

    I am not understanding the reason for your shock at how that discussion fared for you, nor do I believe there’s anything exceptional in the notion that “choices have consequences, including being judged by one’s choices.” File 770 is an opinionated place. People can be sharp-elbowed there, but a lot of us are couching our remarks in praise for your work.

    You don’t like that people didn’t come to you personally. I thought talking to you and about you on File 770 was pretty direct.

    But I’ll go ahead and say this here, too: I think you should find a better place to blog than Castalia House. Theodore Beale is a destructive troll who wants to burn down the Hugos and wage never-ending culture war in SF/F. He’s currently trying to destroy the career of a Tor editor in an orchestrated campaign of fake outrage.

    I don’t support Beale’s projects, so as long as Appendix N is there I’ll be passing on it.

    • jeffro June 10, 2015 at 9:30 pm

      “File 770 is an opinionated place. People can be sharp-elbowed there, but a lot of us are couching our remarks in praise for your work.”

      You know, that’s interesting. I’ll keep that in mind next time I feel the urge to drop a rant somewhere.

  12. Hampus Eckerman June 11, 2015 at 1:02 am

    Jeffro, are you aware of who Anders Behring Breivik is? Four years ago he killed 77 persons. One of person who managed to survive was my friend. He survived because he hid in the water while Breivik killed a girl instead. The main target of Breivik was my friends wife.

    Now, why are you surprised that I don’t want to visit the publishing house of a person who shares Breiviks political views, who think that Breivik will be called a hero? Why was your first thought that this couldn’t be real?

    My first thought was suprise that a person I had gotten a good impression of would choose to publish his work at someone who I think an apt description of would be “terrorist lover”. Sadness over that someone would choose to work with the man who heroises the would-be killer of my friend.

    Regardless, I think people attacked you on file770 for things you hadn’t said. They were needlessly aggressive.

    • jeffro June 11, 2015 at 5:10 am

      Yes, I see that different things “trigger” people (myself included) and some of them can’t be sorted out right away. I am listening, though.

  13. Mark June 11, 2015 at 2:19 am

    Hey Jeffro, “When I started blogging at Castalia House, no one came to me and explained why it was that this would be such a bad idea.”

    The thing is, why did someone need to tell you that? I won’t be unrealistic, you may have known little or nothing about the place, and I won’t blame you for not having looked a gift horse in the mouth, but equally it’s wasn’t anyone else’s responsibility to tell you.

    The people who think it was a really bad idea won’t have known you from Adam, and as the best response to an enterprise of VD’s is to ignore it until it becomes obtrusively offensive, probably didn’t go to CH to discover you existed. The point at which you became widely known was when VD decided to deploy you as one of his many weapons, as a fan writer nom. Even then, fan writer was far far down the list of most people’s concerns, and you didn’t get any real discussion until you actively arrived on File 770 to talk. A lot of people have given you kudos for doing that.

    Why are people (including myself) unprepared to go to CH? Well, if you were published on Mad Genius Club (home to a fair number of Sad Puppy nominees) I’d probably go read you there, even though I vehemently disagree with much of what MGC say and do. Ditto if you were published on a site run by Torgeresen or Correia.

    CH isn’t beyond the pale because I’m opposed to dialogue. CH isn’t beyond the pale because of antipathy towards VD. CH is beyond the pale because VD holds so many positions that are so so far away from anything resembling a sense of human decency that the idea of even indirectly benefiting him horrifies me.

    You may think that’s OTT, that I’m clutching my pearls here, but all I can say is that I can include a very broad church of people in my world view, but VD has quite deliberately and carefully put himself beyond my capacity to tolerate.

    You may not have made a very conscious choice to join CH. There may have been no single point at which these issues leapt into your mind. No-one dropped and said “Uhh…” It’s probably been a slippery slope of realisation that there are people out there whose antipathy to VD gives them this reaction that you struggle to understand. But you’re there, and myself and many many others will not join you there.


    • jeffro June 11, 2015 at 5:22 am

      Now, hold on here.

      I have tried to show respect to people that are upset about things that may be for real. I mean, I’m not going to tell Hampus that his feelings are invalid. I don’t think I’ve even indicated that they are unreasonable.

      But let me tell you about my feelings.

      The extent to which this whole “guilt by association” thing goes is way bigger than anything I can conceive of. That reading a blog post for free on the internet is something some of y’all can’t do… that is something I would not have been able to imagine until this past week or so.

      Again, I don’t mind that you feel that way. I don’t take offense at it. But this is such a new “thing” to me, it blows my mind. But I’m listening and trying to understand.

      • Mark June 11, 2015 at 6:07 am

        Jeffro, saying you won’t do business with someone due to a total antipathy towards their views isn’t unusual, and examples of it make the news on a regular basis.
        You make the point that it’s reading for free, and I wonder if you think that because no money changes hands then no benefit is passed? If so, I would disagree. VD shows no signs of being vastly concerned about money, but he is rapacious in his pursuit of publicity and reputation. He frequently talks about pageviews as a metric for popularity, for example. A click on your article gives VD the currency he cares about.

        Changing tack slightly, can I ask you to tell us a bit about how you came to join CH? What did they want you to write? Was Appendix N your idea?

        [Jeffro: I suggested that they could use an Appendix N series. They said sure and handed me the keys to their blog. I was going to do some other things in addition to that, but they really really liked it once they saw the first couple of installments, so that is what stuck.]

      • nickmamatas June 11, 2015 at 10:40 am

        So, if someone sent you a link to a very interesting article on Lovecraft, which just happened to be on a Nazi blog, and said “Hey, let’s just be neutral pals?” you’d go over and add to the traffic of the Nazi blog?

        Note, I’m not even talking your article and Beale’s site. Just this past month, people in the Weird Fiction/Lovecraftian community found that one of its writers had been living a double-life as a literal organized Nazi who had run for office under the National Front banner in the UK. (He had claimed that it was another “David Riley”—a common enough name—who also enjoyed Lovecraft who happened to be the Nazi.)

        Would you submit your work to his magazine? Would you expect people to buy that magazine from a Nazi if your work was in it?

        [Jeffro: After investing a lot of time to deescalate a flame war, I am not inclined to throw away the results of those efforts. If you don’t mind, I would like to pause this aspect of the discussion in order to allow people to cool off a little. Please do not attack me for doing this… even with something that can be construed as a snide remark. I believe that your doing so would make you look rather more inquisitorial than you desire. I say that not to be snide toward you, but to keep both of us from pouring gasoline on a fire.]

      • Mark June 11, 2015 at 5:15 pm

        Jeffro, the bold text thing is kinda weird, and doesn’t activate an email alert. I only happened to check because I had an alert from Nicks post.

        Anyway, interesting to hear, that was enterprising of you to go to them. How did CH come to your attention in the first place – an article or something?

        Nick, I was going to say “Nazi Blog – is that really a thing?” but then I realised I was on the internet and how stupid that sounded – of course there are Nazi blogs.

        [Jeffro: Yeah, the treading is kind of wonky. This is a workaround. I did a feature last year called “Blog Watch”, basically a weekly link round up. I’m not sure how I got wind of CH, but I harvested it for sff content right along with sites like Black Gate and They put out the word that they wanted another writer and I took them up on it.]

  14. TheConservativeDM June 11, 2015 at 3:12 am

    When it comes to this small-minded gaggle of dolts and their attacks on your character, you shouldn’t be worrying about them, you should be wallowing in them. Take heart in the council of Spinrad (“The opprobrium of assholes is a badge of honor.”) and Wilde (“You can always judge a man by the quality of his enemies.”) By all appearances, you are an honorable man of high quality.

    Remember also that the reactionary zealots who form the front line troops of the modern religion of Leftism tend to focus their fire on those who show them for the fools they are, and on those who they think are most likely to shrink and hide. They are modern day bullies of the most cowardly stripe. You don’t have to answer to bullies. Just keep doing what you think is right, and soon enough their interest in you will fade and all that will remain are a few vocal supporters and a quiet legion of fans to good natured to wallow in the mud with the pigs who are attacking you.

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