Jeffro's Space Gaming Blog

Microgames, Monster Games, and Role Playing Games

3d6 Six Times in Order is the Solution to Most RPG Problems

The RPGPundit is back with another video in his series on “Things They Taught You Wrong on Purpose”, this time on the topic of equal spotlight time for all players no matter what. He is absolutely correct that this is antithetical to the rpg medium. One thing I will add here is that the returning to “3d6 six times in order” for attributes produces a far better outcome at the table than going along with the conventional wisdom on this.

Here’s why:

When D&D is played this way, most people tend go with the class that has a prime requisite that matches their highest attribute. When combined with a challenging, high death scenario, this results in each character niche being frequently redistributed almost at random. People that would normally play a bombastic high charisma fighter end up playing a scruffy, sneaking thief with hilariously low hit points. People that prefer to play the stout, law-abiding cleric can very easily find themselves in a situation where they have the privilege of making that choice between Magic Missile, Charm Person, and Sleep for the party’s one and only spell!

It works. Over time, every one gets a chance to try each of the major archetypes. But for any given scenario, you won’t know which character class is going to be the most significant or relevant. One thing that happens with this is that the quiet person that always hangs back and goes along with whatever the group wants can find themselves in a situation where they have to make judgement calls that can affect the course of the entire adventure. In a continuing campaign, this is pure gaming gold, believe me!

But what happens when you give in and switch to “4d6 drop the lowest and arrange to suit”? Everyone’s going to pick some sort of weird specialty class like the Ranger or the Illusionist or maybe something offbeat like the Half-Orc Cleric/Thief. They totally have their hearts set on what they choose. If they die, they can just come right back as pretty much the same thing, so it doesn’t matter.

But then what do you do when Fred is hard core into playing druids and the adventure that the party chooses to pursue is set almost entirely underground? Do you improvise a wilderness segment where none exists just to throw him a bone? I hope not! Because if Fred wants to play something weird, he ought just deal with this. He could have persuaded the group to do something different, but couldn’t pull it off. If Fred is out of step with the party consensus, this is not your problem.

And there you are, sitting at that table. Two or three hours go by and you see Fred there having to lump being stuck doing nothing else but trying to come up with something significant with his 50′ of rope and ten foot pole or improvising conversation with some random non-player character in the dungeon. Honestly, that’s probably going to be ten times more fun than forty minutes of hand-tailored spotlight time in a situation that is rigged for Fred to show off all of his special Druidic stuff.

But most people most of the time…? They’re not going to trust the dice. They’re not going to trust the party’s consensus about what the most fun thing the party could possibly do. They’re going to be tempted to give in to Fred and try to make the game be what they think he might want. Player autonomy evaporates. Choices stop having natural consequences. The whole game would becomes noticeably more static.

And hey, I get it. You’re a champ at refereeing and every call you have ever made on this sort of thing was golden. You have the players eating out of your hand and people are banging down the door to sit at your table. You’re that awesome, I know. But my point here is… if you run with “3d6 six times in order”, you don’t have to be a genius to make this stuff work. You can just kick back, enjoy the game, and see what happens rather than feeling guilty about not serving up the perfect scenario that is rigged just so that everyone’s special snowflake class gets to do their thing equally.

Instead, the players will know they are getting whatever party mix the dice give them. And whatever plusses and minuses their characters end up having, it’s on them to figure out a way to make it work. The sooner everybody gets to that sort of gaming epiphany, the sooner everyone can get down to the business of “real” gaming. “4d6 drop the lowest and arrange to suit” is just a needless distraction that will slow you down!

19 responses to “3d6 Six Times in Order is the Solution to Most RPG Problems

  1. MishaBurnett July 14, 2018 at 6:56 am

    This is an excellent summation of the huge difference between character creation when I played D&D in the 70s and 80s and my later attempts to get into modern D&D.

    Then: “Okay, let’s roll the dice and see what happens”

    Now: “What kind of character do you want…?”

    3d6 in order also does away with the nonsense about the ideal party composition–deciding that you *need* a particular mix of classes and creating characters to fit. In the paleodracosubterranean world dealing with the situation with the classes that you had available was part of the challenge of the game.

    A party of three fighters, a thief, and a cleric is going to tackle an orc camp far differently than a party of two magic users, two thieves, and a fighter.

  2. Spencer E Hart July 14, 2018 at 9:45 am

    The time to include potentials for everyone to get spotlight time is when you make the dungeon without knowing what the party composition will be.

    How hard is it to just put in a couple animal encounters when you build your dungeon (rats, bats, giant moles, or whatever) just in case you get a druid or a gnome in the party? Or a sloping passage or trick stonework in case a dwarf, or some secret doors in case an elf?

    It’s up to the players to recognize a situation when special abilities might come into play, not for the DM to put up a big flashing sign for them.

    (I do remember sometimes rolling up multiple characters at at a time with 3d6 in order back in the day, though, then choosing which one to play.)

  3. Matthew Ess July 14, 2018 at 1:49 pm

    I’ve never played 3d6 in order, but I notice the problems in my own gaming group that you talk about, and you certainly make the alternative sound good. Ever since I first started reading this and a few similar blogs, I’ve been pushing the group to try out some less fluffy, inconsequential games…

    • jeffro July 14, 2018 at 11:11 pm

      I have had some success in bringing people to Adventurer Conqueror King System from D&D 3.5, There seems to be enough contemporary game design finish there that it makes the transition easier.

      • Matthew Ess July 15, 2018 at 2:01 am

        Thanks for the suggestion! I’ve been looking at ACKS, but have enough expenses right now that it will have to wait… Maybe I can get it for myself for Christmas. But that is encouraging; we’re playing 3.5 (which I have never at any point liked) right now, maybe I can get ACKS in for consideration around the turn of the year. I know some of my friends might balk, but others could, I think, do quite well.

  4. lewpuls July 14, 2018 at 5:34 pm

    I’m afraid you’re left behind in the last century, Jeffro. Contemporary gamers *don’t* like constraints (which is kind of funny, since a game is merely an agreed-upon set of constraints). You’re saying, because referees are weak, make people play characters they don’t want to play merely because of a roll of the dice, of chance. I say, referees need to be strong: don’t give in to “all about me” (spotlight) D&D, let the players take the consequences of their choices. I’d rather make them live and die by their own choices, than by a damn dice roll. Surely you advocate for player responsibility?

    Of course, I use point-buy systems for character generation (I may have been the first to devise such a system), not dice rolling. Dice rolling can doom a player to considerable disadvantage through no fault of his/her own. And you KNOW, most players just roll the damn dice umpteen times until they get what they want. Unless you have absolute control, and can make them take their first roll, you’re doomed with any dice system. In other words, a player can’t cheat (and get away with it) with point-buy.

    It almost rhymes: “3d6 is dumb.” ;-)

  5. lewpuls July 15, 2018 at 6:58 am

    Keep in mind, the fundamental difference between 3e/3.5e and old D&D is that the latter is a highly co-operative game (because otherwise you die) while 3/.5 is a “one-man army” show-off-how-powerful-you-are game that doesn’t encourage co-operation. Which rules you use don’t matter as much as the attitude of GM and players, but when any character can survive well on their own, it makes for problems.

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  9. Sam Hart July 16, 2018 at 10:32 am

    I just finished using 4D6 then drop, but in order (ACKS “Heroic” generation). Then each character was assigned a class based on their best stats. Got a thief, a fighter, a paladin, and a cleric. It’s fast, it’s low-stress, and everyone is involved in kibbutzing about what each character must look like, act like, what class to be, instead of everyone scurrying off to mangle stats in secret.

    It doesn’t look like it should be much more open and enjoyable, and lead to much less contention and disappointment over character, niche, and spotlight time, but it really is vastly superior. I’m a points-buy kinda guy, and this is a revelation to me.

    • jeffro July 16, 2018 at 10:58 am

      Yes. The ACKS system of having the rolls be in order combined with very strict attributes is game design gold. And bringing everyone together to hash out the class choices is really great. That collaboration and cooperation is the game. But also… people occasionally pick the dumb wizard with high strength or the unwise cleric with awesome dexterity because that’s what the group needs. These offbeat characters have more character… and their successes become more dramatic because they are relatively more unlikely.

      • simontmn July 24, 2018 at 5:05 am

        I like 3/4d6 in order with minimal attribute bonuses, eg the S&W ones work well, I am a softie though and currently will let the player swap around any one pair of stats – which means no odd PCs like my son’s INT 10 M-U who got to level 18 before being Disintegrated, but it’s a reasonable compromise. The important thing is not to allow a full “arrange to taste”.

  10. altimatewriting July 16, 2018 at 7:03 pm

    Nerd point: If you get a chance at Charm Person or Sleep, you’re an idiot if you drop either in favor of Magic Missile. Granted, choosing between ‘Enslave Ogre’ and ‘Create Abattoir’ is quite difficult.

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